Lemmy moderators get 2 tools only: a sledge hammer and a chainsaw. We need a toolbox with sharper tools.
  • "Initials" by "Florian Körner", licensed under "CC0 1.0". / Remix of the original. - Created with dicebear.comInitialsFlorian Körnerhttps://github.com/dicebear/dicebearDI
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    Now 100%

    I’ve seen removals without rationale. The software allows it and mods tend to only give a reason in the most justifiable cases (spam). I’ve also seen robotic removals, where nothing appears in the modlog. These are entirely untraceable. It happens when a removal is systemwide and not by a local moderator.

    Of course these features can be designed to spec. A msg folding action could (and should) force a rationale, which would then be more transparent than removals (which users have to go to the modlog for -- only to potentially find nothing). Burying rationale in the modlog is not good for accountability because that’s less visited than the thread, which is where the folding rationale would appear.

    And worse, removals are unnoticeable to the author. Authors see their own removed comments just fine. The status quo is very sneaky. I’ve discovered my comments were quietly removed /months/ after the removal, incidentally, because of the subtle way they are implemented. In one case it was because I was searching for my own comment using a different account than what I authored it with, and that was the only reason I could then realize it was removed. If you generally want to know if you have been censored, you need to periodically search for your own posts in the sitewide modlog. It does not get any more subtle than that.

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  • Lemmy moderators get 2 tools only: a sledge hammer and a chainsaw. We need a toolbox with sharper tools.
  • "Initials" by "Florian Körner", licensed under "CC0 1.0". / Remix of the original. - Created with dicebear.comInitialsFlorian Körnerhttps://github.com/dicebear/dicebearDI
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    Their job should be removing blatant spam/offensive content.

    When removal is the only tool you give them, they use it to remove outright content that is on-topic and civil. Limiting them to heavy tools encourages abuses of power.

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    No downvotes on hexbear. So no, it’s not the status quo here.

    I said “status quo with Lemmy”, thus talking about the software, not the configuration. Note this is a cross-post. The original post was on Sopuli.

    The software is designed to use the down votes to arrange the better quality content on top of the thread (to some extent¹). Of course if you disable the functionality on an instance then that particular instance does not use it, which is orthogonal to a discussion of how to improve the software. It would be bad quality engineering to design the software for a specific configuration of a particular instance.

    ¹ though not entirely because age is a factor AFAICT.

    You’re getting pushback because we don’t put a lot of value in civility here and the best way to disagree or criticize someone is to post about it.

    You can’t disagree when the post is censored. What do you reply to? I don’t think anyone has yet mentioned an alternative way to discourage a moderator from abusing their power to remove msgs they don’t agree with, which is the most rampant problem with moderation in the threadiverse (not just talking about hexbear but wherever Lemmy runs). The hexbear status quo encourages the abuses of power they think they are discouraging by having blunt tools. Which is not to say I’ve seen any such abuses of power on hexbear.. not visited it much.

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  • Lemmy moderators get 2 tools only: a sledge hammer and a chainsaw. We need a toolbox with sharper tools.
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    Folding is not an obligation, so no time is wasted.

    There is already some obligation for mods to decide whether each comment should be removed or not (as content can be illegal). But luckily there are mechanisms in place so mods do not have to read every comment. If you are worried that users would use the /alert/ mechanism to ask a mod to fold something, that’s already a risk and a problem. Adding the fold capability does not add to that burden.

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  • Lemmy moderators get 2 tools only: a sledge hammer and a chainsaw. We need a toolbox with sharper tools.
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    folding would be useless

    Bizarre that you think that. Bizarre that people are agreeing. Can you elaborate? Why would it be useful to have low-quality content fully expanded by default? Isn’t the status quo with Lemmy to use voting to sink and fold low quality posts?

    I personally do not have time to read every single comment when I step into a thread. I want to see the best commentary first and only the less interesting stuff if choose to keep reading, if I have time. The nature of a tree of threads results in some garbage responses to quality comments that rise to the top. If you do not fold anything, you are then forced to see junk before quality, because the 2nd best comment in the tree is still below a low quality reply to the best quality comment.

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    Bit early for that. I think that approach of implementation without design or discussion is largely why tech has become so enshitified in recent decades. Better quality software emerges from a meticulous series of phases starting with analysis (discussion) and design. It seems kids are being taught to run off and code without thinking which is what leads to bad quality s/w.

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    Lemmy moderators get 2 tools only: a sledge hammer and a chainsaw. We need sharper tools in the toolbox.
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    I’d rather see mods have less power not more

    I would rather see mods have use less power, not more.

    When you give them blunt instruments, you encourage excessive use of power. When you give them only an AK-47, they will use that to cut the head off a chicken rather than a machete (as you withheld the machete as it would be too empowering).

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    To say /subtle/ is to overlook the expressed transparency of mod votes being distinguished from user votes. Anything you understood to undermine transparency is a misunderstanding. Transparency is important. None of the mechanisms mentioned are necessarily opaque if competently designed.

    A brainstorm is not meant as a deeply detailed specification. You have to be able to imagine how transparency can be built into the designs.

    To say “petty ego tripping” is to misunderstand the purpose of voting. Voting is a means to an ends, not the ends. I doubt anyone gives a shit what the total is (except of course ego trippers). Voting has a utilitarian purpose: to influence a quality score that sinks poor quality content and/or folds it, while raising high quality posts to the top. To have contempt for accurate scoring is to have contempt for quality control and curation.

    To worry about voting losing its role of displaying an integer discrete vote count is actually to promote ego tripping. Using the votes for utilitarian purpose diminishes the use case as an ego tripper’s status symbol. So if you oppose ego tripping, you’re actually on the wrong side of this.

    Votes could in fact remain as integers, 1 per vote, if you want to preserve the ego tripping function. While the quality score could be a separate number with a composition and calculation that need not be hidden from view.

    (update) Consider how SpamAssassin works. It computes a score then it also gives detail on how the score was calculated:

    X-Spam-Flag: YES
    X-Spam-Score: 7.2
    X-Spam-Level: ******
    X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=7.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,
     RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_NONE,URIBL_BLOCKED
        autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4
    

    Rough example but a post quality score could be more or less similarly refined using smarter criteria than just equal weighted votes per account, particularly if people get multiple categories to vote on.

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  • Lemmy moderators get 2 tools only: a sledge hammer and a chainsaw. We need a toolbox with sharper tools.
  • "Initials" by "Florian Körner", licensed under "CC0 1.0". / Remix of the original. - Created with dicebear.comInitialsFlorian Körnerhttps://github.com/dicebear/dicebearDI
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    After describing in detail how a sledge hammer lacks precision for the job at hand, you propose a battering ram. Not only is it a more blunt instrument, it’s also less conducive to quality control. If that tool works for you, why even have moderators?

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  • cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/27346179 > When an arrogant presumptuous dick dumps [hot-headed uncivil drivel](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/26945936/13091858) into a relatively apolitical thread about plumbing technology and reduces the quality of the discussion to a Trump vs. $someone style shitshow of threadcrap, the tools given to the moderator are: > * remove the comment (chainsaw) > * ban the user from the community (sledge hammer) > > Where are the refined sophisticated tools? > > When it comes to nannying children, we don’t give teachers a baseball bat. It’s the wrong tool. We are forced into a dilemma: either let the garbage float, or censor. This encourages moderators to be tyrants and too many choose that route. Moderators often censor civil ideas purely because they want to control the narrative (not the quality). > > I want to do quality control, not narrative control. I oppose the tyranny of censorship in all but the most vile cases of bullying or spam. The modlog does not give enough transparency. If I wholly remove that asshole’s comment, then I become an asshole too. > > He is on-topic. Just poor quality drivel that contributes nothing of value. Normally voting should solve this. X number of down votes causes the comment to be folded out of view, but not censored. It would rightfully keep the comment accessible to people who want to pick through the garbage and expand the low quality posts. > > Why voting fails: > * tiny community means there can never be enough down votes to fold a comment. > * votes have no meaning. Bob votes emotionally and down votes every idea he dislikes, while Alice down votes off-topic or uncivil comments, regardless of agreement. > > Solutions: > > I’m not trying to strongly prescribe a fix in particular, but have some ideas to brainstorm: > > * Mods get the option to simply **fold** a shitty comment when the msg is still on-topic and slightly better quality than spam. This should come with a one-line field (perhaps mandatory) where the mod must rationalise the action (e.g. “folded for uncivil rant with no useful contribution to the technical information sought”). > * A warning counter. Mods can send a warning to a user in connection with a comment. This is already possible but requires moderators to have an unhuman memory. A warning should not just be like any DM.. it should be tracked and counted. Mods should see a counter next to participants indicating how many warnings they have received and a page to view them all, so as to aid in decisions on whether to ban a user from a community. > * Moderator votes should be heavier than user votes. Perhaps an ability to choose how many votes they want to cast on a particular comment to have an effect like folding. Of course this should be transparent so it’s clear that X number of votes were cast by a mod. Rationale: > * mods have better awareness of the purpose and rules of the community > * mods are stakeholders with more investment into the success of a community than users > * Moderators could control the weight of other user’s votes. When 6 people upvote an uncivil post and only 2 people down vote it, it renders voting as a tool impotent and in fact harm inducing. Lousy/malicious voters have no consequences for harmful voting and thus no incentive to use voting as an effective tool for good. A curator should be able to adjust voting weight accordingly. E.g. take an action on a particular poll that results in a weight adjustment (positive or negative) on the users who voted a particular direction. The effect would be to cause voters to prioritize civil quality above whether they simply like/dislike an idea, so that votes actually take on a universal meaning. Which of course then makes voting an effective tool for folding poor quality content (as it was originally intended). > > * (edit) Ability for a moderator to remove a voting option. If a comment is uncivil, allowing upvotes is only detrimental. So a moderator should be able to narrow the ballot to either down vote or neutral. And perhaps the contrary as well (like some beehaw is instance-wide). And perhaps the option to neutralise voting on a specific comment.

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    Lemmy moderators get 2 tools only: a sledge hammer and a chainsaw. We need sharper tools in the toolbox.

    When an arrogant presumptuous dick dumps [hot-headed uncivil drivel](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/26945936/13091858) into a relatively apolitical thread about plumbing technology and reduces the quality of the discussion to a Trump vs. $someone style shitshow of threadcrap, the tools given to the moderator are: * remove the comment (chainsaw) * ban the user from the community (sledge hammer) Where are the refined sophisticated tools? When it comes to nannying children, we don’t give teachers a baseball bat. It’s the wrong tool. We are forced into a dilemma: either let the garbage float, or censor. This encourages moderators to be tyrants and too many choose that route. Moderators often censor civil ideas purely because they want to control the narrative (not the quality). I want to do quality control, not narrative control. I oppose the tyranny of censorship in all but the most vile cases of bullying or spam. The modlog does not give enough transparency. If I wholly remove that asshole’s comment, then I become an asshole too. He is on-topic. Just poor quality drivel that contributes nothing of value. Normally voting should solve this. X number of down votes causes the comment to be folded out of view, but not censored. It would rightfully keep the comment accessible to people who want to pick through the garbage and expand the low quality posts. Why voting fails: * tiny community means there can never be enough down votes to fold a comment. * votes have no meaning. Bob votes emotionally and down votes every idea he dislikes, while Alice down votes off-topic or uncivil comments, regardless of agreement. Solutions: I’m not trying to strongly prescribe a fix in particular, but have some ideas to brainstorm: * Mods get the option to simply **fold** a shitty comment when the msg is still on-topic and slightly better quality than spam. This should come with a one-line field (perhaps mandatory) where the mod must rationalise the action (e.g. “folded for uncivil rant with no useful contribution to the technical information sought”). * A warning counter. Mods can send a warning to a user in connection with a comment. This is already possible but requires moderators to have an unhuman memory. A warning should not just be like any DM.. it should be tracked and counted. Mods should see a counter next to participants indicating how many warnings they have received and a page to view them all, so as to aid in decisions on whether to ban a user from a community. * Moderator votes should be heavier than user votes. Perhaps an ability to choose how many votes they want to cast on a particular comment to have an effect like folding. Of course this should be transparent so it’s clear that X number of votes were cast by a mod. Rationale: * mods have better awareness of the purpose and rules of the community * mods are stakeholders with more investment into the success of a community than users * Moderators could control the weight of other user’s votes. When 6 people upvote an uncivil post and only 2 people down vote it, it renders voting as a tool impotent and in fact harm inducing. Lousy/malicious voters have no consequences for harmful voting and thus no incentive to use voting as an effective tool for good. A curator should be able to adjust voting weight accordingly. E.g. take an action on a particular poll that results in a weight adjustment (positive or negative) on the users who voted a particular direction. The effect would be to cause voters to prioritize civil quality above whether they simply like/dislike an idea, so that votes actually take on a universal meaning. Which of course then makes voting an effective tool for folding poor quality content (as it was originally intended). * (edit) Ability for a moderator to remove a voting option. If a comment is uncivil, allowing upvotes is only detrimental. So a moderator should be able to narrow the ballot to either down vote or neutral. And perhaps the contrary as well (like some beehaw is instance-wide). And perhaps the option to neutralise voting on a specific comment.

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    plumber: “your hot water tank is too old to flush”
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    I should first clarify the point of the thread: to understand the plumber’s reasoning. How old is too old for an abused tank and how old is too old for a well maintained tank? SMCF says 30 yrs is past both thresholds but I would like to know where those thresholds are (considering warranties are generally shit [esp. in the US] and a useless indicator of life expectancy).

    In a good buyer’s market replacing the tank now is the right move for sure. But the house is in the US, in a region where prices are extortionate. Buying a tank is about triple the cost of a tank in Europe and almost as costly as buying a tankless combi boiler in Europe. And buying a tankless boiler in this part of the US (which is what I would prefer) is well over $2k last time I checked, and that’s not even a combi. So I’ve been holding out for prices to become reasonable.

    I guess if I don’t replace it now, I should leave the sediment in the tank to avoid the risk of it falling apart when flushing it.

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    plumber: “your hot water tank is too old to flush”
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    In my case it’s likely in a terrible state because during my timespan of ownership (last ~25 years) I never replaced the anode rod. I only recently learned about them. So the tank has probably eaten itself alive.

    But what if I had diligently replaced the anode rod periodically? Wouldn’t a tank last much longer? The plumber who said they would not flush a tank that old would not have known whether the anode rod was routinely replaced.

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    Plumbing diyrebel Now 100%
    plumber: “your hot water tank is too old to flush”

    Has anyone encountered this? I didn’t talk directly to the plumber but was told they will not flush a 30+ year old tank. I wonder if the plumber is concerned that it’s so fragile that flushing would cause leaks.

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    Subscription fatigue: when will enough be enough?
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    The metadata in the headers can be avoided using Memoryhole and similar protocols which embed the headers inside the encrypted payload. The problem is again barrier to entry. Low-tech users generally can’t even handle app installs on desktops.

    When you say “worry”, that’s not the right word for it. My boycott against Google is not fear-driven. I will not feed Google anything it can profit from as an ethical stance. Even if an expert linux tor user were on Google, I’m not sure we could exchange email in a way that ensures Google gets no profitable data. If we use PGP coupled with Memoryhole to strip out the headers, I’m not sure Google would accept a msg with a missing or bogus From: header. But if so, Google still possibly learns the user’s timezone. Though that may be useless if Google learns nothing else about that user. But we’re talking obscure corner cases at this point. Such an expert user would have no Google dependency anyway.

    MS/google-dependent friends are generally extremely low-tech. They don’t know the difference between Firefox and the Internet. They don’t know the difference between Wi-Fi and Internet. Linux -- what’s linux? They would say. At best, they just think of it as a mysterious nerd tool to be avoided. So what can I do wholly on my end to reach them via gmail without Google getting a shred of profitable data? Nothing really. So I just don’t connect directly with a large segment of friends and family. Some of them are probably no longer reachable. Some are in touch with people who connect to me via XMPP, so sometimes info/msgs get proxied through the few XMPP users. It’s still a shitshow because Google still gets fed through that proxied inner circle of friends and family. In the past when someone needed to reach me directly, they would create a Hushmail or Protonmail mail account for that temporary purpose (like coordinating a trip somewhere). But that option is mostly dead.

    I just had to reach out to plumbers for quotes. All of them are gmail-served. All I could do is refuse to share my email address and push them to use analog mechanisms. They are not hungry enough for business to alter their online workflow or create protonmail accounts.

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  • Subscription fatigue: when will enough be enough?
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    That’s exactly what I did with hushmail. I would tell low-tech folks to get a hushmail account then I would use hushtools.com to do all the key management, putting my key on the keyring and grabbing their key. So the other person did not need to know anything or take any special steps. That was best option of my time. But last time I checked hushmail was still entirely non-gratis.

    Protonmail emerged when HM became non-gratis and messed with hushtools. But PM requires every one of their own users to do key management which creates a barrier to entry. I would have to walk a PM user through adding my key to my record in their address book and walk them through sending me their key. That effort is a show stopper for many. I might as well walk them through setting up a PGP-capable MUA. But then if they keep their gmail or MS acct the metadata still feeds those corps.

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  • Subscription fatigue: when will enough be enough?
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    I give out my XMPP address and offer Snikket accounts. Some go along with it and some do not. I lost touch with some friends. Some people are in contact via phone but that’s not ideal some connections are lost as phone numbers change.

    I used to push some people toward Hushmail until they dropped the gratis plans. Then for a while I pressured people onto Protonmail but then distanced myself from PM when the brought in Google reCAPTCHAs and killed off Hydroxide. Tuta is a non-starter because Tuta’s variety of e2ee is incompatible with open standards, thus forcing me to periodically login to a web UI (also due to them sabotaging their Android app by way of forced obsolescence pushed in the most incompetent way).

    So it’s a shitty state of affairs. 2024 and simply sending a msg to someone has become a total shitshow.

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  • [solved] help needed to understand this diagram of a water flow sensor (from a boiler)
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    For what it’s worth, I didn’t mean take the sensor out of the wall, but just electrically unplug it from the controller to see what it does on its own when you turn on the water.

    Yeah I figured that but the terminals on the sensor are hard to reach so I was figuring I would need to remove it. But then it occurred to me that I could leave the thing in place and do the isolated test by unplugging the X2 connector from the motherboard and easily access the pins through that connector. So that’s what I did. Results:

    • at rest, the signal wire is 4.75 V
    • water running, the signal wire is 2.3 V

    So in isolation the sensor worked correctly. Then I plugged it back into the motherboard and retested to confirm again the bad voltages. But in fact the readings were correct. It’s unclear why it works now. I wonder if the unplugging and replugging of the x2 connector improved a connection that deteriorated somehow.

    Thanks for saving me €36! However incidental. If I had not done the test in isolation, I probably would not have messed with the X2 connector. I would have normally just replaced the sensor as an experiment.

    (edit) I can hear a ticking sound coming from the motherboard. I’m not sure how long it’s been doing that. It’s quite faint unless I put my ear close to the board. Maybe it’s normal.

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  • [solved] help needed to understand this diagram of a water flow sensor (from a boiler)
  • "Initials" by "Florian Körner", licensed under "CC0 1.0". / Remix of the original. - Created with dicebear.comInitialsFlorian Körnerhttps://github.com/dicebear/dicebearDI
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    It shows 5V on the diagram but I don’t think that’s precise. I measured the red wire at 4.68v which is around what the guy in the video got in his test. Since the board is part of the circuit I suppose I cannot rule out the board as a problem. Testing the sensor in isolation will be rough going because it’s a proprietary joint. So I would have to get a tight rubber hose and fit that onto a garden hose. For powering it I have a switchable ac adapter with a 4.5 V setting. Or I can maybe get 5V off a USB charger or ATX PSU from a PC. My multimeter does not have a frequency function but I can see from the video that it would be useful for this so I might look for 2nd hand multimeter at the next street market, though that will set me back a week (OTOH might be worth it if it helps diagnose this in a way that helps avoid buying the wrong part).

    Whatever is broken here, it was something that gradually failed. For several months it was a gamble when turning on the hot tap whether the boiler would detect it and give hot water. It was like a 50/50 game of chance for a while then getting hot water became progressively less likely until it flatlined.

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  • cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/26703241 > This diagram is from the service manual of a combi boiler. It’s a flow sensor which detects whether hot water is running, which is then used to trigger on-demand heat and switch a diverter to take radiators out of the loop. > > In English, the diagram shows: > * X ⅔ red wire (+5V) > * X 2/2 black wire (ground) > * X 2/6 green wire (signal) > > I need to know what those fractions mean. I took the voltage measurements in this video: > > * https://iv.ggtyler.dev/watch?v=d8ucufoyUlQ > > I cannot necessarily trust the model in that video to have the same specs as mine. My voltmeter detected 4.68 V on the red input wire showing that the sensor is well fed. The green “signal” wire is supposed to be 0 V at rest and 2 V with water running (or I think the reverse of that is used in some models). In my case the green wire is ~1.33 V at rest and ~0.66 V when water is running. I need to know if these readings are normal as I troubleshoot [this problem](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/26529192). update --- [@unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de](https://discuss.tchncs.de/u/unexposedhazard) and a couple others gave the answer I was after. Then [@tofubl@discuss.tchncs.de](https://discuss.tchncs.de/u/tofubl) helped solve the underlying problem. The theory that the sensor was fine but the board was not drove me to test the sensor in isolation. The sensor gave correct output in isolation. Then I connected it back to the motherboard to retest and reconfirm that it’s still broken. But it actually worked. The hot water suddenly and mysteriously works now. I guess the act of draining the water and unplugging the connector then reconnecting and repressurizing caused it to work. It may be temporary, since in the past it was hit or miss whether it would work.

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    "Initials" by "Florian Körner", licensed under "CC0 1.0". / Remix of the original. - Created with dicebear.comInitialsFlorian Körnerhttps://github.com/dicebear/dicebearHV
    [solved] help needed to understand this diagram of a water flow sensor (from a boiler)

    cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/26703241 > This diagram is from the service manual of a combi boiler. It’s a flow sensor which detects whether hot water is running, which is then used to trigger on-demand heat and switch a diverter to take radiators out of the loop. > > In English, the diagram shows: > * X ⅔ red wire (+5V) > * X 2/2 black wire (ground) > * X 2/6 green wire (signal) > > I need to know what those fractions mean. I took the voltage measurements in this video: > > * https://iv.ggtyler.dev/watch?v=d8ucufoyUlQ > > I cannot necessarily trust the model in that video to have the same specs as mine. My voltmeter detected 4.68 V on the red input wire showing that the sensor is well fed. The green “signal” wire is supposed to be 0 V at rest and 2 V with water running (or I think the reverse of that is used in some models). In my case the green wire is ~1.33 V at rest and ~0.66 V when water is running. I need to know if these readings are normal as I troubleshoot [this problem](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/26529192). update --- [@synapse@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/u/synapse) gave the right answer. Someone in another cross-post helped solve the underlying problem.

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    "Initials" by "Florian Körner", licensed under "CC0 1.0". / Remix of the original. - Created with dicebear.comInitialsFlorian Körnerhttps://github.com/dicebear/dicebearPL
    Plumbing diyrebel Now 100%
    [solved] help needed to understand this diagram of a water flow sensor (from a boiler)

    This diagram is from the service manual of a combi boiler. It’s a flow sensor which detects whether hot water is running, which is then used to trigger on-demand heat and switch a diverter to take radiators out of the loop. In English, the diagram shows: * X ⅔ red wire (+5V) * X 2/2 black wire (ground) * X 2/6 green wire (signal) I need to know what those fractions mean. I took the voltage measurements in this video: * https://iv.ggtyler.dev/watch?v=d8ucufoyUlQ I cannot necessarily trust the model in that video to have the same specs as mine. My voltmeter detected 4.68 V on the red input wire showing that the sensor is well fed. The green “signal” wire is supposed to be 0 V at rest and 2 V with water running (or I think the reverse of that is used in some models). In my case the green wire is ~1.33 V at rest and ~0.66 V when water is running. I need to know if these readings are normal as I troubleshoot [this problem](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/26529192). update --- As the responders point out, the strings in the diagram represent labels for where the wires land on the motherboard. The underlying problem was also solved with the help of someone in a cross-posted thread.

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    cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/12359577 > There are a few youtube videos where someone suggests using sulfuric acid to clean a secondary plate-style heat exchanger ([for example](https://invidious.fdn.fr/watch?v=t6PCK6_r99Q)). Yet I’ve heard sulfuric acid is extremely corrosive to metal, so something seems off about that advice. I certainly would not want an internal leak to cause radiator fluid to enter the tap water. I saw a drop of sulfuric acid land on a galvanized steel pipe once and within minutes it was rusted on the spot. > > [This guy](https://invidious.fdn.fr/watch?v=3ljHwrbQQE4) also says sulfuric acid is an option but also says there is a safer alternative acid -- yet he did not mention what it is! Does anyone know? > > [This guy](https://invidious.fdn.fr/watch?v=8-YYjiqO_v4) says he uses an ultrasonic bath but he does not say what chemicals he uses. Would distilled white vinegar be good for this? > > Note these questions are very loosely related to [this thread](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/12359198) which describes a problem I am having, but really it’s a separate discussion. Secondary exchangers need periodic maintenance regardless of whether this is my current problem. I saved my previously clogged heat exchanger from a few years ago so I could work on cleaning it. I have a quite small ultrasonic I could try, but I cannot submerge the whole exchanger. I would have to stand it on end and only clean a few centimeters deep.

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    There are a few youtube videos where someone suggests using sulfuric acid to clean a secondary plate-style heat exchanger ([for example](https://invidious.fdn.fr/watch?v=t6PCK6_r99Q)). Yet I’ve heard sulfuric acid is extremely corrosive to metal, so something seems off about that advice. I certainly would not want an internal leak to cause radiator fluid to enter the tap water. I saw a drop of sulfuric acid land on a galvanized steel pipe once and within minutes it was rusted on the spot. [This guy](https://invidious.fdn.fr/watch?v=3ljHwrbQQE4) also says sulfuric acid is an option but also says there is a safer alternative acid -- yet he did not mention what it is! Does anyone know? [This guy](https://invidious.fdn.fr/watch?v=8-YYjiqO_v4) says he uses an ultrasonic bath but he does not say what chemicals he uses. Would distilled white vinegar be good for this? Note these questions are very loosely related to [this thread](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/12359198) which describes a problem I am having, but really it’s a separate discussion. Secondary exchangers need periodic maintenance regardless of whether this is my current problem. I saved my previously clogged heat exchanger from a few years ago so I could work on cleaning it. I have a quite small ultrasonic I could try, but I cannot submerge the whole exchanger. I would have to stand it on end and only clean a few centimeters deep.

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    My #Vaillant combi-boiler ***was*** working fine for both central heating and tap water, then suddenly there is no hot tap water. These are the clues that seem to imply the secondary heat exchanger would NOT be the problem: * radiators heat up fine, which I think must prove the radiator side of the secondary heat exchanger is clear (OR does the secondary heat exchanger get bypassed when central heat runs)? * the “hot” (cold) tap water flows with good pressure, which seems to suggest the tap water side of the secondary heat exchanger is probably clear as well. * new secondary heat exchanger was installed in February 2019, which would be unlikely to clog this early. * when I last showered the hot water was good and continuous. In 2019 when an exchanger clogged shower water would alternate between hot and cold. But in the case at hand I had solid hot tap water one day and not the next. When I turn on a hot water tap, the boiler LCD should normally show an icon of a faucet to indicate that it has switched to tap water. That is not happening. Even if I turn off the central heating by turning the dial to the lowest setting, the boiler never switches to tap. The guy in [this video](https://invidious.fdn.fr/watch?v=8-YYjiqO_v4) says it’s normally the central heating side of the secondary heat exchanger that clogs. Does anyone concur with that? Seems unlikely because the radiator circuit runs the same water through which has inhibitor. The tap water side would have new quite hard water constantly passing through the tap side of it. There are no fault codes displayed when I press the “i” button for information. What a likely issue? I guess this question might be important: * Does the secondary heat exchanger get bypassed when central heat runs? After some thought, I suspect bypassing the heat exchanger would be important, otherwise it would heat the tap water sitting still in the exchanger and cause unwanted pressure, correct? If that’s the case, it makes me think the radiator side of the exchanger could be clogged. But then I guess that does not explain the tap water icon not appearing on the lcd. When I turn on the tap, I hear no solenoid switching sound like I used to. ***UPDATE*** This morning the hot tap kind of works with the thermostat off and after letting water run quite a long time. The tap water icon appears somewhat chaotically, flashes every couple seconds (not sure if that’s normal). For the first couple minutes the status rotates between these undocumented status codes: 11, 14, 17. What do those mean? The burner ignites for a second then quits (status 14). Like a car starting to rev but giving up. Over the summer I drained the whole radiator system, flushed about ½ the radiators, and refilled with water and added the inhibitor. Just yesterday I added water to increase the radiator pressure. There is no filter on the radiator circuit. I wonder if my maintenance would have caused sludge to end up in the heat exchanger. Then I turned on the heating and the tap water was shut out again. The status sequenced like this: 1. (status 4) heating mode: burner on 1. (status 5 undocumented) 1. (status 7) heating mode: pump overrun 1. (status 8) Anti cycling mode (after heating operation) ← what is that?

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    I’m seeing a contradiction on chain cleaning articles. One [dodgy site](https://companyofcyclistscom.b-cdn.net/cleaning-the-chain/) says: > It is essential to avoid some common mistakes when cleaning a bike chain. Firstly, be cautious not to oversaturate the chain with degreaser as this can lead to damage or corrosion. Then [another site](https://tricitybicycle.com/how-to-clean-bike-chain-with-chain-cleaner/) says to remove the chain and submerge it in degreaser. The first site seems dodgy, like one of these machine-generated sites that scraps together fragments of other works and plagurizes it in a clumsy way. But is the advice good? If the chain is 100% degreased, when you oil it wouldn’t the oil eventually spread everywhere it’s needed? The 2nd article says remove the chain. Yet I’ve heard advice to not re-use quick-links. So WTF are they implying we need to buy a new quick-link every time we clean it? If yes, then removing the chain defeats the cost effective motivation for cleaning it in the 1st place. Maybe this is crazy talk, but one idea I have is to leave the chain on the bike and submerge just the deraileur into an ultrasonic bath and very slowly move the chain through it. Not sure if my deraileur has ball bearings.. if it does, then indeed the ultrasonic would be a bad idea.

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    I replaced the whole drivetrain 23 months ago (cassette + crankset + chain all at once). I bought the cheapest new parts I could find which came out to 5 local Big Macs on today’s McDonald’s index (in total). The chain has started slipping every time it rains. I don’t blame the rain I just suspect that it’s reaching the end of life and the water just puts it over the edge enough to slip. I assume it will soon start slipping in dry conditions as well, correct? Can I do much better than 2 years? I somewhat abused the chain. Added proper oil every ~2 weeks but never cleaned it. There are lots of unsupported claims in the wild that cleaning the chain substantially increases the longevity. Okay, sounds plausible but I’ve seen no stats. If a weekly cleaning (thus 104 cleanings) would extend the drivetrain’s life by a couple weeks for example, that’s not worth the effort. So does anyone have any figures, even anecdotal? Guess I should mention this is urban city riding, not trail, so presumably cleaning would be less impactful. And I’m not a serious enough rider to need high performance. I’ve also heard the sprocket and cassette should be replaced ***every other*** chain replacement. Is that good advice? So I only need to replace the chain at this point? Is it just the chain’s life that is shortened by not cleaning, or are the gears also significantly worn down faster?

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    cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/10839711 > A top-floor room that’s not currently used has mold from excessive dampness. For a month I have been running a dehumidifier as it’s too cold to open the window. > > Is this a good idea? > > My concern: I heard about running a dehumidifier long-term in a damp basement is a bad idea because making the air more dry than the wall causes moisture to continuously flow from the outside in. That flow supposedly has the effect of washing the masonry through the capillaries and causing it to break down and weaken. In my case it’s not a basement, but similar because the exterior wall is non-stop wet from the frequent rains (possibly even leaky.. i think water seeps in). > > I have the humidity set to 55%. I wonder if there is an optimum setting that would inhibit mold without overly causing water to flow through the wall (which is very old brick+mortar and rendered over on both sides, no insulation). > > BTW, the water collected in the dehumidifier looks clean. Is it good for drinking?

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    A top-floor room that’s not currently used has mold from excessive dampness. For a month I have been running a dehumidifier as it’s too cold to open the window. Is this a good idea? My concern: I heard about running a dehumidifier long-term in a damp basement is a bad idea because making the air more dry than the wall causes moisture to continuously flow from the outside in. That flow supposedly has the effect of washing the masonry through the capillaries and causing it to break down and weaken. In my case it’s not a basement, but similar because the exterior wall is non-stop wet from the frequent rains (possibly even leaky.. i think water seeps in). I have the humidity set to 55%. I wonder if there is an optimum setting that would inhibit mold without overly causing water to flow through the wall (which is very old brick+mortar and rendered over on both sides, no insulation). BTW, the water collected in the dehumidifier looks clean. Is it good for drinking?

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    "Initials" by "Florian Körner", licensed under "CC0 1.0". / Remix of the original. - Created with dicebear.comInitialsFlorian Körnerhttps://github.com/dicebear/dicebearPH
    Physics diyrebel Now 100%
    Ultrasonic manual instructs us to use /cold/ water - why?

    cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/9350839 > The manual for an ultrasonic cleaner says: > > > * “**Cold**, clean tap water is generally best suited as cleaning fluid. The cleaning effect can be enhanced by the addition of approximately 3 drops of washing-up liquid. Do not use caustic cleaners, **ammonia**, bleach or heavily perfumed detergents.” (emphasis mine) > > I know a professional jeweler with decades experience who cleans jewelry (mostly gold) using “Mr. Clean”¹ and ammonia, diluted, in an ultrasonic tub. The cheap ultrasonic I bought for myself is not for pros - but jewelry cleaning is the advertised purpose and it has a stainless steel tub just like the pro models have. > > So the question is, what’s the purpose of the ammonia avoidance guidance, and is the pro jeweler I know making a mistake by using ammonia? > > **UPDATE:** I also have to question why the manual of my *cheap* domestic ultrasonic says to use cold water. ***Pro*** ultrasonics have built-in heating elements. The pro jeweler waits until the solution is hot before using it. So why is manual of the cheap ultrasonic saying to add cold water? Since there is no heating element in my cheap one, I’m tempted to start with hot water. > > footnote: > > ① out of curiosity, is there a brand-neutral name for “Mr. Clean” (aka “Mr. Propre” in French regions)? ^ The above was posted in a chemistry forum to ask the question about ammonia, but I thought I’d try physics for the question about cold water. Normally I would want to fill the ultrasonic tub with boiling water for a better cleaning effect. But the manual says to use cold water, and it also says to give the device a cooling off period if it’s been used continuously. Is some ultrasonic hardware actually sensitive to heat? I saw a build-your-own ultrasonic video where someone glued a ultrasonic generator to a sink to make a big ultrasonic tub. So I wonder if the cheap home device I bought might have used a glue as well, which perhaps would lose adhesion if the tub heats and cools (expansion/contraction).

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    The manual for an ultrasonic cleaner says: > * “**Cold**, clean tap water is generally best suited as cleaning fluid. The cleaning effect can be enhanced by the addition of approximately 3 drops of washing-up liquid. Do not use caustic cleaners, **ammonia**, bleach or heavily perfumed detergents.” (emphasis mine) I know a professional jeweler with decades experience who cleans jewelry (mostly gold) using “Mr. Clean”¹ and ammonia, diluted, in an ultrasonic tub. The cheap ultrasonic I bought for myself is not for pros - but jewelry cleaning is the advertised purpose and it has a stainless steel tub just like the pro models have. So the question is, what’s the purpose of the ammonia avoidance guidance, and is the pro jeweler I know making a mistake by using ammonia? **UPDATE:** I also have to question why the manual says to use cold water. Pro ultrasonics have built-in heating elements. The pro jeweler waits until the solution is hot before using it. footnote: ① out of curiosity, is there a brand-neutral name for “Mr. Clean” (aka “Mr. Propre” in French regions)?

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    cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/8959162 > I had a rod that was threaded on one half and smooth on the other half. I needed the smooth half to be installed into brick. > > **method 1: chemical anchor** > > The normal way to do this (I think) would be to cut some grooves into the rod using an angle grinder, drill a hole that has a diameter that’s ~2mm bigger than the rod, and use chemical anchoring. But that stuff is pricey and only lasts ~1 year on the shelf. Thus cost ineffective for 1 use. > > **method 2: ad hoc chemical anchor substitute** > > Similar to the above, I wonder if general 2-component household epoxy would work as a substitute in the above method since people are more likely to have that on-hand. I suspect the issue is that it’s too thin and gravity would do its thing and the topmost area would not get filled with epoxy. Hence why I did not attempt it. > > **method 3: (What I did)** > > The rod measured at ø=8.8mm. I had no 9mm drill bit for masonry (and that would be too loose anyway). So I used a nominal 8mm masonry bit on a hammer drill. I’m not sure what the actual diameter of that resulting hole was, but it was too tight to push in the 8.8mm rod in by hand. So I tapped it in, dry (no oil or glues). It worked! It feels really solid. Feels like I got away with murder. > > **Questions** > > (method 2) Is there something could be mixed with common 2-component household epoxy to thicken it so it acts more like chemical anchor epoxy? > > (method 3) Did I take bad risk with fracturing the brick? Is there perhaps a guide somewhere that safely maps brick hole diameter to metal rod diameter? Or is this something is never done and should never be done?

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    cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/8959162 > I had a rod that was threaded on one half and smooth on the other half. I needed the smooth half to be installed into brick. > > **method 1: chemical anchor** > > The normal way to do this (I think) would be to cut some grooves into the rod using an angle grinder, drill a hole that has a diameter that’s ~2mm bigger than the rod, and use chemical anchoring. But that stuff is pricey and only lasts ~1 year on the shelf. Thus cost ineffective for 1 use. > > **method 2: ad hoc chemical anchor substitute** > > Similar to the above, I wonder if general 2-component household epoxy would work as a substitute in the above method since people are more likely to have that on-hand. I suspect the issue is that it’s too thin and gravity would do its thing and the topmost area would not get filled with epoxy. Hence why I did not attempt it. > > **method 3: (What I did)** > > The rod measured at ø=8.8mm. I had no 9mm drill bit for masonry (and that would be too loose anyway). So I used a nominal 8mm masonry bit on a hammer drill. I’m not sure what the actual diameter of that hole was, but it was too tight to push in the 8.8mm rod in by hand. So I tapped it in, dry (no oil or glues). It worked! It feels really solid. Feels like I got away with murder. > > **Questions** > > (method 2) Is there something could be mixed with common 2-component household epoxy to thicken it so it acts more like chemical anchor epoxy? > > (method 3) Did I take bad risk with fracturing the brick? Is there perhaps a guide somewhere that safely maps brick hole diameter to metal rod diameter? Or is this something is never done and should never be done?

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    I had a rod that was threaded on one half and smooth on the other half. I needed the smooth half to be installed into brick. **method 1: chemical anchor** The normal way to do this (I think) would be to cut some grooves into the rod using an angle grinder, drill a hole that has a diameter that’s ~2mm bigger than the rod, and use chemical anchoring. But that stuff is pricey and only lasts ~1 year on the shelf. Thus cost ineffective for 1 use. **method 2: ad hoc chemical anchor substitute** Similar to the above, I wonder if general 2-component household epoxy would work as a substitute in the above method since people are more likely to have that on-hand. I suspect the issue is that it’s too thin and gravity would do its thing and the topmost area would not get filled with epoxy. Hence why I did not attempt it. **method 3: (What I did)** The rod measured at ø=8.8mm. I had no 9mm drill bit for masonry (and that would be too loose anyway). So I used a nominal 8mm masonry bit on a hammer drill. I’m not sure what the actual diameter of that resulting hole was, but it was too tight to push in the 8.8mm rod in by hand. So I tapped it in, dry (no oil or glues). It worked! It feels really solid. Feels like I got away with murder. **Questions** (method 2) Is there something could be mixed with common 2-component household epoxy to thicken it so it acts more like chemical anchor epoxy? (method 3) Did I take bad risk with fracturing the brick? Is there perhaps a guide somewhere that safely maps brick hole diameter to metal rod diameter? Or is this something is never done and should never be done?

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    cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/8721869 > Parts like sprockets, chains, hubs, BBs, etc are quite useful for projects to build tools, furniture, art. I get them at no cost by dumpster diving. Cleaning them is quite a pain though. These are some of the options I’ve considered: > > * dishwashing machine— if normal dishwasher detergent is used, I would expect it to corrode aluminum parts (correct? Can someone confirm or deny that?) Chains and /some/ sprockets are steel, right? Would they do well in the dishwasher? I wonder if there is some kind of alternative detergent that won’t harm aluminum since I always have to hand-wash an aluminum pot cover. > > * ultrasonic bath— this method strikes me as the most convenient and what I would expect someone who needs to clean lots parts to use. But there is a [risk of de-anodization if you use degreaser](https://invidious.no-logs.com/watch?v=ljsai1RpAo0). Some jewelers use ultrasonic cleaners with a cocktail of Mr. Clean and ammonia. Would that work well on bicycle parts, non-destructively? > > * Enzyme-based oven cleaner— I tested this on sprockets and it seemed to work quite well but doesn’t get into the nooks and crannies and dissolve any of the mud. > > * Enzyme-based drain cleaner— instructions say wait 6 hours, so i did not test it. Is that time perhaps just because it takes that long to spread down the drain and munch on large volumes of gunk? Perhaps it would work in less time on bicycle parts. > > * boiling water with dish soap— I hoped it would melt the greasy grime. The water was quite dirty afterwards but did not make much noticeable progress. > > * degreaser spray— did not test this. I just have degreaser for kitchen surfaces so maybe not the right stuff. > > * bicycle cleaning spray— kind of strange that this exists. Bicycles have many different materials and different kinds of grime. It did not do too well on greasy sprockets as far as I could tell. > > Question on the enzyme-based cleaners: enzymes are a bit pricey by volume compared to other cleaners. Is there a way to store and reuse them? Ideally I would like to pour a bottle of enzyme-based drain cleaner into a bucket and just always soak parts in that same bucket. Do those little guys multiply when you feed them? If the water is always dirty, will the enzymes always be too full to chow down on parts being added?

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    Parts like sprockets, chains, hubs, BBs, etc are quite useful for projects to build tools, furniture, art. I get them at no cost by dumpster diving. Cleaning them is quite a pain though. These are some of the options I’ve considered: * dishwashing machine— if normal dishwasher detergent is used, I would expect it to corrode aluminum parts (correct? Can someone confirm or deny that?) Chains and /some/ sprockets are steel, right? Would they do well in the dishwasher? I wonder if there is some kind of alternative detergent that won’t harm aluminum since I always have to hand-wash an aluminum pot cover. * ultrasonic bath— this method strikes me as the most convenient and what I would expect someone who needs to clean lots parts to use. But there is a [risk of de-anodization if you use degreaser](https://invidious.no-logs.com/watch?v=ljsai1RpAo0). Some jewelers use ultrasonic cleaners with a cocktail of Mr. Clean and ammonia. Would that work well on bicycle parts, non-destructively? * Enzyme-based oven cleaner— I tested this on sprockets and it seemed to work quite well but doesn’t get into the nooks and crannies and dissolve any of the mud. * Enzyme-based drain cleaner— instructions say wait 6 hours, so i did not test it. Is that time perhaps just because it takes that long to spread down the drain and munch on large volumes of gunk? Perhaps it would work in less time on bicycle parts. * boiling water with dish soap— I hoped it would melt the greasy grime. The water was quite dirty afterwards but did not make much noticeable progress. * degreaser spray— did not test this. I just have degreaser for kitchen surfaces so maybe not the right stuff. * bicycle cleaning spray— kind of strange that this exists. Bicycles have many different materials and different kinds of grime. It did not do too well on greasy sprockets as far as I could tell. Question on the enzyme-based cleaners: enzymes are a bit pricey by volume compared to other cleaners. Is there a way to store and reuse them? Ideally I would like to pour a bottle of enzyme-based drain cleaner into a bucket and just always soak parts in that same bucket. Do those little guys multiply when you feed them? If the water is always dirty, will the enzymes always be too full to chow down on parts being added?

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    "Initials" by "Florian Körner", licensed under "CC0 1.0". / Remix of the original. - Created with dicebear.comInitialsFlorian Körnerhttps://github.com/dicebear/dicebearDI
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